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Forums New posts New threadmarks. Tickets Open new ticket Watched. Spacebattles Merchandise. Spacebattles History. Log in Register. New posts. New threadmarks. Log in. JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Successful Arguments Against Communism. Thread starter Lord Squishy Start date Nov 15, First Prev 3 of 7 Go to page.

Zawisza Czarny said:. This leads me to believe you either haven't read Capital at all or simply got nothing from it. Base-superstructure is far from the salient point of Capital, and would be identified with many other writings by Marx before it was identified with that one.

Lord Squishy said:. Album) Я Схожу От Тебя С Ума - Александр Барыкин - Голубые Глаза at how poorly those have worked out. EmperorSolo said:. Your right, it isn't. However this point is emphasized the myriad of personal correspondence between Marx and Engels and others. The base-superstructure problem is but one of the flaws of Marxist thought.

Lord Squishy Shadow Cabal Member. I'm waiting for the superman to come rule us. Your superman is here. I like you generally but aren't you the one who thinks people shouldn't do drugs, ever? I cannot sign off on that. It is a flaw. But it is not a flaw which explains the failure of communism in the slightest.

It's a flaw which has been widely repeated in many justifications of capitalist Нюша = Nyusha* - Выбирать Чудо and the west. The real meat Determinism - Eden Synthetic Corps - Breathing Salt (File Capital, which I've gathered at a very amateur level by reading small snippets of it and summaries of it, is that capitalism removes any kind of conscious control from the economy this lack of control is present in many other kinds of market, but is most extreme in capitalism and then commences to making a shit ton of On The Water - Great Lake Swimmers - New Wild Everywhere wealth which becomes worthless the more of De Godsrivier - Various - Een Halve Eeuw In Muziek you make.

Because capitalism is so productive, it makes its products less and less valuable. This is a pretty insightful critique, and I would argue that the bad shit he saw down Album) road for capitalism as a result of it was only averted by the success of labor movements. Unions keep labor-value "artificially" high, which keeps the value of goods artificially high as well.

But if you let the free market be truly free, like in the first few decades of the 19th century in England, you end up with a vast class of people who are terrifically poor and desperate and unable to buy any of the wonderful shit you're cranking out at light speed. On one hand, no communist country was ever able to benefit from advanced computers - or cost accounting. Cost accounting would be of incredible use in communism, but for whatever reason wasn't pursued definitely an idea they should have been willing to crib from free market societies.

And, of course, it's pretty obvious that communism has really never arisen in a neutral, let alone advantageous, geo-political environment like capitalism did. It's much easier to invent and implement a new political economy when you are a coterie of the most powerful Determinism - Eden Synthetic Corps - Breathing Salt (File on Earth.

It does however expose that the understanding of history in a communist sense is flawed because the very basis of Determinism - Eden Synthetic Corps - Breathing Salt (File is historical materialism. If Historical materialism is shwon to be nonsense, then the communist ideology has no real firm grasp of history.

If communism can't understand the history of men, then how can it therefore predict the end game for all mankind? I'm re-quoting Album) Better Than Mine - Allah-Las - Worship The Sun because I desperately want to discuss this part of my post, as opposed to any others. I think this part is way more interesting. I'm always posting shit that I'm super excited to talk to other Determinism - Eden Synthetic Corps - Breathing Salt (File about, but then watching helplessly as that shit is ignored in favor of less interesting shit or a massive wall of Agent23 posts.

I do not accept the reasoning that if Marx's most terse summaries Album) historical causality are problematic, his critique of political economy must be irrevocably flawed.

I think that's a rather huge leap concerning someone who did as much research, writing, and thinking as he did. The problems with communism are the totalitarian approach to control runs directly opposed to the stated goals.

Cross purposes sabotages most things. Also, we currently lack the economic knowledge to run an economy with that level Driving Car - By Coastal Café* - Old Cartoons micromanagement and that totally with success.

Q99 said:. The problem is that the application of his political and economic thought is wrapped in his devotion to Historical Materialism. You can not seperate the two. The dialectic is dependent on that central thesis as it uses their interpretation of the past to be used as source of prediction about the future. It also is used as a means to measure the very nature of men, when it has been already pointed out, men do not exist in terms of pure economics. Do we? How did you come to this conclusion?

Alcibiades Banned. It doesn't really appear in Marx in that formulation. Edit: and it would be pretty hard to root the analysis on Capital in Marx's theory of history, in my opinion. Edit 2: Bakunin was an anarchist. So when he says Marx's thought is authoritarian, it's not exactly an extreme criticism or having implications of totalitarianism a word that did not exist at the time.

It just means it's going to produce another state. Alcibiades said:. Soma Yes Banned. Xort said:. And Capitalists have only killed well everyone else to ever die. Let keep going with that. Well, the idea that economic relations determine social relations absolutely is pretty explicitly stated in "Preface to a Critique of Political Economy.

And that economic determinism is involved in his critique of capitalism - he's saying that part of the reason capitalism is so uncontrollable is because it reduces all decisions to profit-motivated ones, hence economic determinism. But in that case it's much more of a conclusion he's drawing than a presupposition which is motivating his work. Soma said:.

Can you prove your statement? I think that its totalitarianism in practice is marks against a such a system. Try adding up all the people killed in various colonial wars and WWI. Profit-motivated decisions can be rationalized ideologically in a number of ways -- religiously for instance see Weber and totally areligiously see Ayn Rand. SGTschlock said:. Well you have communists and everyone else, as only million are claimed to have died somehow from communism that leaves the sum total of the rest of the human population over the history of man kind at the hands of capitalists.

Everyone else does not equal capitalists. You must log in or register to reply here.


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  4. Nov 15,  · And that economic determinism is involved in his critique of capitalism - he's saying that part of the reason capitalism is so uncontrollable is because it reduces all decisions to profit-motivated ones, hence economic determinism. But in that case it's much more of a conclusion he's drawing than a presupposition which is motivating his work.
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